David Berman disses MMJ

[cmccubbin@work]

i was reluctant to post this and give creedence to this jerk, but awareness is important:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/archives/2008/04/interview_david.php

...

David: Well I started to foresee something in the late 90's, when instrumental music started becoming really popular, that started saying something to me...

Interviewer: Like who?

David: Well, in general techno and the electronic movement that is less lyric oriented. That to me really became a part of the shopping culture that's really come up. Because music like that really makes you the star, you're in the forefront, and it's the soundtrack to your life. That's kind of the Night of the Roxbury guys. And that music means something else. And I think that is what music got to me. And that's why the band, if they have the right style and the right form, then they are a lot closer to being finished. I think the background is the big issue now. When bands are doing lots of harmonies and reverb, I think it's a drawing back from the foreground from having to say anything. The Flaming Lips sound was always about individuals, but they created a way out of putting mortal feeling into their songs, while seeming to still embrace the good. Which is all about the "ahhhhhhh." It's like My Morning Jacket—love the way it sounds, until you have the opposite experience. Until you're on the subway, and you can concentrate on what he's saying, and all of a sudden, you're like 'Oh my God, this guy had no idea what he was doing, and he was just hoping to get this stuff by without anyone really noticing.'" And he's done a wonderful job of it, because if you don't pay attention, you don't notice these terribly embarrassing things. If my music doesn't get heard or concentrated on, then its below the standards of regular people. If you put on a Silver Jews record at a regular office, this sort of dislike that is expressed, is not that this is egghead music. That this is other music performed with a more rudimentary singer, with not as thrilling of hooks or something. But if you put it in another context, and treat it like something that is throwing its weight, and needs to be listened to, and more interpreted . . . I need people to raise their standards, so I can have a chance. If you don't raise your standards, then I lose. Left alone with regular people and the mainstream, then I fail, in that Venn diagram.

...

how pretentious can you be?  people must raise their standards to enjoy his music?

[dhollensbe]

Blogs = Internet geeks with too much time on their hands that can't muster enough talent to get a real job writing.

Sorry in advance if I offend and bloggers on this board.   :P

[DaFunkyPrecedent]

who is this guy?  

I kinda like hearing people diss on MMJ - makes my love for them feel more special because I know something that they dont know.  

[Penny Lane]

and the silver jews=one of the worst live shows ever--no wonder malkmus would not tour w/them....it was embarrassing. they didn't even know the lyrics (although i like some of their stuff)

[bridget]

Y'know my first thought with this was that I should be pissed at Dave.  And ohmygod, yes he is unbelievably pretentious, but I'm a huge admirer of his work, and I honestly feel bad that he doesn't get it.

He's had a rough couple years. I think he'd feel better if he could tap into the spirit of what mmj does, what they're about.

[BH]

David who?

[megalicious]

it's impossible to define what kind of music is "better than" another. there is no great objective leader in the universe who somehow decides to what "smart" people listen, and what rocks an "egghead's" face off.

i don't need to "raise my standards" in order to like a silver jews song, and i don't have to lower them to like a my morning jacket song.

music is what it is.

people like what they like.

get over it.

[bridget]

who is this guy?  
 

This is Dave:

"...like my friend Gordon
(this is a true story)
who grew up in Braintree Massachusetts
and had never pictured a brain snagged in a tree..."

Sound familiar?

It's from "Self Portrait at 28" by David Berman

He's an exceptional poet and songwriter. He is also a very sad guy.

I feel like his approach to music is just very, very different from mmj.

[ManNamedTruth]

who is this guy?  
 

This is Dave:

"...like my friend Gordon
(this is a true story)
who grew up in Braintree Massachusetts
and had never pictured a brain snagged in a tree..."

Sound familiar?

It's from "Self Portrait at 28" by David Berman

He's an exceptional poet and songwriter. He is also a very sad guy.

I feel like his approach to music is just very, very different from mmj.

from Acoustic Citsuoca? They put that in their CD and then the guy totally disses them? That's f'ed up.

[evilPaauwe]

who is this guy?  

I kinda like hearing people diss on MMJ - makes my love for them feel more special because I know something that they dont know.  

preach!

[Kimbos_Evil_Bread]

quote from his article: The Flaming Lips sound was always about individuals, but they created a way out of putting mortal feeling into their songs, while seeming to still embrace the good. Which is all about the "ahhhhhhh."


Before Yoshi versus the Pink Robots came out I heard a lot of people talking a lot of smack about the Flaming Lips.  Criticizing a band on their lyrics not being literature is more reflective of the listener than the band IMO.

And what exactly is "mortal feeling while still embracing the good"?  I don't think I'm deep enough to even grasp the explaination but if it means sold out shows at Radio City Music Hall, I want my music to have none of it.

[EC]

oh gooooooooooooooooooooooooood david berman shut up you write about k holes.

[ManNamedTruth]

quote from his article: The Flaming Lips sound was always about individuals, but they created a way out of putting mortal feeling into their songs, while seeming to still embrace the good. Which is all about the "ahhhhhhh."


Before Yoshi versus the Pink Robots came out I heard a lot of people talking a lot of smack about the Flaming Lips.  Criticizing a band on their lyrics not being literature is more reflective of the listener than the band IMO.

And what exactly is "mortal feeling while still embracing the good"?  I don't think I'm deep enough to even grasp the explaination but if it means sold out shows at Radio City Music Hall, I want my music to have none of it.

yeah its all a bunch of nonsense, maybe he should take a new career as an album reviewer for pitchfork.

[cmccubbin@work]

here is hating on Louisville, KY and its local "rockers"....what a douche:

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/feature/31330-interview-silver-jews

Pitchfork: How long have you lived in Nashville? Where did you live before that, and what prompted the move?

Berman: Cassie [Marrett, Berman's wife] and I moved here in 1999. I'd been living in an apartment colony called Mallard's Crossing beside an office park on the outskirts of Louisville. When I looked out my window, I wasn't necessarily in "sour old Louisville," an idea of a town with which I had an antagonistic relationship. The surrounding mallscape, it could have been anywhere-- Falls Church, Plano, Toledo.

In my beery mind this display of exurban contempt was the equivalent of a lone "boo" during the silent section of a live Rodan set. Sure my neighborhood bar was a BW-3, but at least I didn't have to deal with the sullen and homely hippy women that make up so a large portion of that town's rock scene. The day after Cassie graduated from college we left. It was the Titans' inaugural season. It was a great time to move to Nashville.

Pitchfork: What made Louisville so sour for you?

Berman: Listen to the song "Van Lear Rose" on Loretta Lynn's last album, and for the words "Johnson County" replace with "Louisville," and for "miners" put "local rockers." Cassie is the Van Lear Rose. I'm the stranger who comes to town. Sprinkle in a lot of wide-bottomed hippy women.

[Igbo]

 

I kinda like hearing people diss on MMJ - makes my love for them feel more special because I know something that they dont know.  

Totally agreed! And besides who cares really. Let him hate, means more tickets for us.

[sweatboard]

      Wow, I think Dave is mostly talking about the broad appeal of MMJ's music.  I mean Jim does write some awesome melodies and amazing hooks then finishes them off with a blissful reverbed vocal.  Lyrically you can compare almost nothing to Dave Berman...He's witty, highly intelligent, and has a VERY unique way with words.  The Silver Jews music i.e. "Vocal sound, hooks, and melodies" are not up there with MMJ and I think that's part of what Dave is trying to say, granted I think the other part is that  Jim's lyrics are not on par with Dave Berman's.  I think that they both are pretty accurate statements, in a black and white world......but that would also be like saying Mariah Carey has a better voice than Stephen Malkmus.  I wouldn't want my Berman lyrics with the highly emotional music of MMJ and I wouldn't want Jim's lyrics with the music of the Silver Jews.  

The Flaming Lips comment.  I'm assuming that the song that stirred this all up for Dave was probably "Wordless Chorus"  The "ahhhh's" evoke emotion thus the title "Wordless Chorus"  I'm assuming that Dave is saying the Lips use "ahhhhh's" but it's in the context of more complicated music....so he doesn't have the same problem with it, He seems to be saying they both sound really good but there is much more substance beneath it on a Flaming Lips record.

I think the thing that bothers me is that he's so concerned about the "mainstream" and "regular people"

Dave Burman response in a nut shell....

Flaming lips - Mainstream - Good
My Morning Jacket - Mainstream - Not So Good
Silver Jews - Not Mainstream - Fucking Awesome, unfortunately because he does not use reverb and go "ahhhhhhhh" he will never be deemed as good as My Morning Jacket or The Flaming Lips by the mainstream Or regular people.  

[vespachick]

Jesus christ, thanks for deciphering that Brian.  Makes total sense to me now!

Isn't funny though, seems to me that somebody who is so taken with himself and his words should be able to communicate more effectively.  Maybe he SHOULD use a couple of "aaahhhhs".  Though, he's probably not talking to me anyway. ;)

[aMD]

I think you hit the nail on the head, Brian.  

The difference between this guy and Jim is that this guy is concerned with making music that isn't mainstream while Jim is concerned with making good music.

I do understand what he's saying and I think it's kinda neat he's listened to the jacket enough to form an opinion.  However, I think he's missing the point of mmj's music and perhaps music in general.

[Andrushka]

Who gives a fuck what David Berman thinks?

We love MMJ. That's all that matters.

[Dee.]

Well that was an annoying read! Some people just should not be interviewed. Haha. David Berman, shut yo' mouth. I like your music, but shut your mouth. He's right though, a hell of a lot of people wouldn't give his music the time of day. Maybe because it's plain, David! MAYBE BECAUSE IT'S PLAIN.  ;D